Catherine Austin Fitts on Humanity's Awakening, AI, Fake Christians, and Solutions

Hey, everyone, it's Derek Brose with the Conscious Resistance Network, and I'm at Confluence in Central Texas here with the amazing Katherine Austin Fitz.

I'm so glad to be here.

We're finally meeting in person.

I know.

Which has been all these years.

I feel like I know you well.

Yeah. So those who know, like Katherine and I, have done a lot of interviews. She's a part of the Independent Media alliance, which myself and Whitney Webb and Ryan Christian helped form a couple years ago. And you're at the Solari Report doing all kinds of great work. I'm sure everybody here knows who you are.

Yeah, but I look for it since I first saw you speak.

You don't remember in 2017, was it a nex?

Yeah. Yeah. So that's where we met.

Yeah. Oh, you're right. You're right.

I bought a book. Right.

Dang, it's been so long.

I was just a customer.

No, I knew you were, but it's been. This is what I want to tell you is that actually the first time I became aware of you was very early in my journey. I mean, I have my own story, but it wasn't until 2008, 2009, that I really started to, you know, question things on a deeper level. Prior to that, I was 18 years old during Iraq war, 2003, I voted one time in my life, and it was for John Kerry, because I thought, well, if this guy's the bad guy, then the other guy must be the good guy. I was still at that level of thinking. But years later, after going through some more struggles, I started to question the political system in general, found Ron Paul, found a lot of those early things. And I found From Freedom to Fascism, I think, in 2009, and you're in that documentary among other people. I wanted to get your perspective as somebody who has been around for several decades doing this important work both within the government and without how you feel like the broader movement, using that term loosely, freedom, truth, consciousness, movement, whatever you want to say, homesteading. You know, there's a lot of overlaps here. Has grown or, you know, in my perspective, in my short time realm, it does seem like there's more people asking questions than ever.

So there's a lot more people asking questions and, you know, people who are people who get things done, and that's great. The other thing is that more and more people are understanding the power of what I do. In other words, how I live my life, the choices I make. Because we're either supporting the channel that's poisoning and killing us, or we're building our own channel. And that's what I love about your work. You're like, let's bushwhack the future here. You know, we have to move and build our own channel. So I see the more people who are taking those kinds of actions.

Yeah, it's great. Yeah. And I mean, I would also credit Solari Report for a big part of that, because you, you do such a diversity of work, whether it's writing op eds, writing, you know, doing interviews. And then, of course, you guys have different reports released that on detailed topics that are, I know, very valuable and helpful for a lot of people. Have you seen just more personal with Solari grown in terms of your listenership, viewership with that overall growth?

So here's, here's what our growth is. So we've grown steadily, but every time there's a presidential election, we tell people a lot of things they don't want to hear. Drop by a third.

I understand that.

So in 2024, I was adamant, you know, about holding Trump accountable for mass atrocity and a few other things. And, and then also I said Gaza was a holocaust. And, you know, those two things took

a lot of flack for that.

We dropped a third.

Yeah.

And I had to, you know, seriously subsidize the company for. Until we got back out.

So let's talk about that for a moment. Is that a pattern? You've described it, you know, in terms of Trump every four years, but has it been going back through every administration?

Every administration.

Do you feel like it's any like. Any like. In my view, it seems like the Trump cult, for lack of a better term. And I mean that in the sense of not just somebody who likes maga, but the people who truly like anything you say about Trump. It's going to go in one of the same thing with Joe Biden. Right, Right.

But it's the Uni Party cult, do

you think, that has gotten stronger over the years? Like, not particularly to Trump, but just in general.

I think what's happened is that in my lifetime, you've added neuro warfare, you've added subliminal programming, you've added entrainment technology. So you have ways of brainwashing people through the smartphones or tv, which is much more powerful. And you have a portion of the population who's not that susceptible, and you have a portion that is. So the portion that is. Or, you know, they're very much in the trance and. But the other people are getting smarter and smarter.

It always reminds me of that line from the Matrix about, you know, there's a scene where Neos, they have him walking through a simulation, the lady in the red dress, and he says something like, all these people here in the Matrix are so enamored and, you know, dependent on the system that they will fight you to resist it. Like, so the person coming in shouting, hey, the system's fake, is going to be shut it down. And as you mentioned, I saw you out there in the trenches, myself, Whitney Webb, a lot of our allies, particularly the independent media alliance around the election, we were black pilled, we were doomers. We were all these things because we were willing to call Trump to account. And I know that's something you continue to do. How, how important do you think that is right now? Again, not specific to Donald Trump, but to speaking the truth and calling it out, no matter how uncomfortable it is, how unpopular it is.

Here's successful change comes when we each support the channel that leads to civilization and withdraw support from the channel that leads to tyranny. And that means to do that, a person or a family or community need to understand where the real power lines are. So you can spend all the time you want voting on a presidential election or tracking a presidential election, and it's not going to switch the power lines. And so it's really, really important for me that people see the power lines and see where they can get the power to improve their own lives in a way that improves lives for everybody, because that's where we win. So, you know, it's from Wall street, it's all about winning. Yeah, so I like to win and going around in a dead end loop. So I'll give you an example. America has 3,100 counties. If you want to really switch political power, you switch those 3,100 counties on the county level, at a county level, and you suddenly are going to get control of the money of all sorts of power. And what's interesting is while they have us entertained in the presidential theater, they're grabbing the power one county at a time. And that's why, you know, one of the things I try and do is show people the power line at the state and local level because they can accumulate and affect so much more power and change there.

Absolutely, I agree. I mean, and this is evidenced by the fact that just as one example, the FCC is currently trying to rush through legislation and federal register rules to take away even more local power. About where

does one of our financial rebellions every month with us? She was the mayor of Nevada city. And she's been fighting that thing like crazy.

And that's. And that's an example of if there is more effort. And I see this in Houston, where I'm originally from, where you have just again with the 5G example, people placing towers 200ft from a church, from school. And the way that decision gets made is some arbitrary board that most people have never heard of called the Houston Tower Commission, which is made up of three people that only meet every three months and two of them are former lawyers for Verizon. But it's that board that decides yes or no if that tower goes off.

Right. But that's why one of the things we're just about to publish a new wrap up called Mr. Global in youn Street. And it's about how business people can get together and back Mr. Global out of their street street. And we talk a lot about how they've done that, how they've overridden local decisions and how you, what you can do to get the power back. One of the things we suggest, you know, in, in America, many, many years ago, you always had a local paper who was going to all the board meetings covering it and then warning everybody about what was going on once they bought up and shut down all those local papers. So one of the things that we suggest and Mr. Global in your street is everybody crowdfunding a few bucks a month, pull it, and then pay somebody to go cover all those things and send out a broadcast. Absolutely.

Because again, that's how the UN Agenda 2030 policies pass at the school board level, the county level, the county commissioners.

So let me tell you some of the good news. You know, for many, many years, I've been trying to pass legislation to protect cash and stop programmable money for all these reasons. But one of the things that's happened, because it's an abstract idea and people have struggled with that. But now the local hardware you need to implement that system is going into place with both the data centers, the telecom that everyone's fighting. But then the flak cameras. And what has happened is there is a revolution across America of people who are so furious to discover that they are paying their county to put up cameras that track their every movement with the flight.

These are the automatic license plate reader cameras. More and more people are learning about

flock everywhere and there is huge pushback. It's unbelievable.

And with the data centers, like you said, that seems to me like an issue that might actually have the rare chance to unite left and right.

Right, right. And it's interesting so the people putting in data centers have a couple problems. One is people are beginning to understand that they're going to be used for control. They're not going to be used to increase productivity, they're going to be used to increase control. But the other thing they're realizing is if you look at the projections of what energy they need and what water they need and what their environmental impact is, what the noise does to people who live around it, they're beginning to realize, oh, wait a minute, these people don't care about climate change.

No, they don't. They don't.

There was an article last, I was just telling a guy who I met who'd just gone to a data center conference. There was an article last year that Texas for the projected data centers needed 50 new nuclear plants. And he told me it takes 30 years to build a nuclear plant in Texas.

So on that question, I want to switch gears in a moment, but do you. What? There's this sort of ongoing debate, both, I would say, in the alternative independent community, but especially in the mainstream, whether or not AI itself is a bubble is. And in terms of like they're building all these data centers simply because they've got all this money invested in AI, but they haven't come up with the, you know, the, the hit app for

AI, They've come up with a killer app.

Well, what would you say it is? Programmable money and spatial control and stable coins and things of that sort.

It's spatial control, but they're trying to load into your body materials that will hook you up.

The bio convergence.

Right. So you have an intern bodies, you have an Internet of, you know, so part of it, to do programmable money, you need a complete surveillance loop that will feed back.

Yeah.

And it needs to be integrated between the surveillance systems and the money. And, and that's what the data center is for. It's absolutely for control. And we're financing our own control. You know, it's a prison. It's an open air prison.

And so what is your personal relationship, if anything, with AI? Like do you use it for editing a paper or do you totally abstain? Are you making thumbnails with it? You know, like there's a, variations of use.

Right. So I'm in a prototype phase with AI. You know, to me AI is a tool like anything else. And the, you know, digital technology is building the control grid and you know, there are. I, sir, I really love people who want to have a non digital life. I think the more people who have a non digital Life the better. But I built my business around digital. So I, I need to do digital. And to me an ideal system would have a very healthy analog and a very healthy. It would be balanced.

Yeah.

Anyway, so I've been, we've been prototyping with AI to understand it because to me the most important thing I need to do. It's hilarious. Understand it, what its impact is. And we've found several uses where it's very useful and very effective. You know, the challenge becomes the more they grow it and use it, do we run the risk that the things that it's useful for now, like we're

contributing to it by using. Yeah. This is an argument that's kind of what I wanted to get at because. So I'll just share my. Like I've used it in a couple of small ways. One example, when I was doing research for the Pyramid of Power, I'm looking at documents, a couple hundred years old, handwritten documents by George Washington, things that I could transcribe my own, but which would take hours, I could feed to this AI tool and it transcribes it for me. It's not perfect. I still have to go in there with my human hand and eye, but it saves me hours. Things like that to me feel innocuous. But there is an argument by some that even by using it in these simple ways, we're contributing to the overall.

So it's interesting. Right.

Data center.

Do you know who Paul Emberson is?

I'm not sure I do.

He wrote a book called, It's a trilogy called from. What is it from? It's not Guadalajara, From Gandhi Shapur to Silicon Valley. And it's sort of what's good and bad about digital technology and why, if we wanted human friendly machines, we need to change the fundamental paradigm. It's very interesting. I haven't finished it yet. So, you know, my number one concern about all digital technology, but particularly AI is I think that it can channel interdimensional intelligence. So I think you can invite in the demonic and you can invite in the divine.

This is something you touched on briefly in the Pyramid of Power of the belief that there is something beyond the physical that is also behind some of these intelligent.

The whole universe is intelligent.

Yeah.

We're just about to publish our piece on plasma. 99 of the universe is made up of plasma and plasma is alive and intelligent. Right. So. So the question is, are you inviting in the divine? Are you inviting in the demonic? I think it's very important whenever you use any of these Tools that can channel, you know, all sorts of stuff, both human and interdimensional. You know, that you're cognizant of that, and you use your ability to draw on the divine.

Yeah, I think that's. That's beautiful. One of my friends, he's. You know, there's more and more people thinking, well, they have their artificial intelligence, if you even calling it intelligence might be a. Might be taking it too far. But we have our natural intelligence, right? Or sometimes people say there's the digital Internet, but there's also the Internet of our spiritual connection, you know, the human intranet. And all those. Staying connected to that is, I think, getting more and more important than ever.

So here's the challenge. You know, we're in a period where, you know, it's. It's like getting hit by a wave. And you can't stop the wave. You can't fight the wave, you can't control the wave. So you've got to dive into the wave.

You gotta ride it.

And, you know, I don't necessarily like that. If I had a choice to say, no way, yeah, sure, I would do that.

But it doesn't seem like we're not in a Hollywood movie where there's one magic computer to smash and everything's fixed and over. It's.

I used to have a friend who was a Buddhist, and he would constantly tell me the story. I'm trying to remember what it was called, but it was about how the protagonist, the hero, basically, you know, mind melds and merges with the monster and transfigures the monster that way. So we're just gonna have to dive in the wave and convert it for our direction. It's gotta be like judo.

I love that. Well, let me give you a couple more and I'll let you go. I know you gotta get ready for your talk. We've talked in the past, Rudolf Steiner and some of your interest in that, which I was so grateful to know that's one of your interests among mine, and that's always a fun topic. You know, Steiner was into his own form of Christianity. Some that maybe people in their modern world and mega churches might not recognize, but a form of sort of Christian mysticism, a belief in the Christ.

Part of reading Steiner is reading what he has to say about Jesus, about God and about Christianity.

I think there's so much beauty and just magic there. And I wanted to ask you your perspective. You know, one of the things you took heed on for standing up and I think doing the moral thing and Continue to. Is what we saw in Gaza is what we saw under Trump and Biden, what continues on. And this has been a pretty big, divisive area, you know, in every area. But there's. There's Christian Zionists, for example, who are embracing this and supporting, you know, nobody

who supports something like this is Christian.

Yeah, So I was gonna say, like, how is your feeling on that? I mean, do you think it's people who are just, you know, the flocks being led astray and being led to believe that that's somehow what God wants?

I think there has been a significant effort to buy. Brainwash trick, you know, to engineer a whole world of the Christian churches to support the Holocaust. And, you know, I hate to say it, but if you're going to do a real estate development, it's very profitable to get the churches to, you know, if you can get the churches to support your stealing other people's lands, sure. You know, you can make a lot

of money and claim that it's what God wants.

You know, it. To me, it's a, it's a. It's a very clever marketing strategy. And, and the terrible thing is it's likely that we end up having a draft. And now you're talking about persuading people that they should send their children to die in the Middle east so you can make a lot of money on real estate.

And it feels like it's never been so obvious. Like, for just as one example, the tariff situation, Lutnik, you know, getting himself in a prime position to make a profit off all these. The refunds of the terror, all these different things that seem to be just staring people in the face.

So I'll give you some good news. So are you aware of Foreign affairs magazine?

I am, yeah.

Okay, so Foreign affairs is quarterly, Is published quarterly by the Council on Foreign Relations. Okay. And in the last Foreign affairs, there's a new one out now, but I think it was the spring one. There are three articles about Trump which, you know, you know, they finally. The bankers who put him in have finally come to the recognition that it's, you know, enough is enough. But there's one article called the Age of Kleptocracy, and it's basically describing Trump as. As, I'll say this, the worst grifter yet. I mean, it's pretty amazing because I work for the Bushes, so I've.

There's been some big grifters, right?

There have been some big grifters. And. But the other thing, there was one. I think it's called the predatory hegemon, where they say everybody's trying to understand Trump's foreign policy, but it's really simple. If you just assume that the goal is to make as much money for himself and his friends, things start to. That's the. That's right. That's the policy.

And it's, and it's just so, I think, disgusting for a lot of people to kind of. As you said, there's been a lot of grifting in the past, but the past presidents, especially particular Obama, were great at keeping that veneer of legitimacy on where Trump is sort of the mask ripped off.

I mean, they've all been.

They've all been. But they, they played the role of, well, I'm a constitutional attorney, blah, blah. Where Trump's just like, mask full off. I'm enriching my friends.

I'm enriching my family. I like that about that.

I prefer that it's out in the open, but it's so blatant now that I think people are finally realizing that and realizing maybe this has always been going on. Yes. Now the mask is off so we can see the, the truth in all its ugly glory.

Well, I think for most people, the big one is the failure to prosecute anyone over Epstein.

Absolutely.

Because if, if you're going to protect hundreds of pedophiles because they're your friends.

Yeah.

I mean, there's no law and there's,

I mean, there's, we could, we could go on and there's, There's a list of examples. But, but I think most of the people hearing this will already be with us on the page that those who, I think haven't seen who Trump is probably will.

Here's the question, what I'm going to be talking about tonight. What's the action?

Yeah. This is what I wanted us to get.

What do I do? Because if enough people act, there's a lot you can do.

Sure.

But, you know, the more people who act together, the better.

And that means you have to do more than just watch podcasts and you have to actually get involved locally. Because, you know, one thing that I've heard James Corbett call it, conspira tainment where for some folks, okay, they've tuned out of the mainstream. Right. They're not watching Hollywood or Netflix. But then your program and my program, James and Whitney, it just becomes, okay, the next channel. Next channel. But they don't take those actions. They're just listening.

So here's what's important. If you go to our website, I Don't know if you've seen it. I'll mail you some if you want them. But it's in PDF form, it's free. Anybody can print it out. People hand out copies. It's called Come and Clean.

Yeah.

And the idea is to, you know, and, and it's a list of all the different actions you could take. I mean, it goes on and on for pages and everybody should act where it makes sense for them and they should start where it's good for them. But the, the idea is take some time out of your week. Implement the action you're led to do in a way that makes you stronger and weakens the people who are basically poisoning you or stealing your money.

Exactly.

And, and by, by, you know, we liken the whole system to a parasite. By detoxing the parasite out of your life, you make yourself stronger and your enemy weaker.

Absolutely.

That's the beauty of it. And as you do it, you know, one thing at a time, you get stronger and stronger and stronger and everybody can do it. And you want to take action because you, you, you need, you know, most people are exhausted by this whole.

Sure.

You know, whole situation. So you want to, you want to break it down into something that gives you energy. Keep just, you know, just keep giving yourself more and more energy. And the more you do it, you

know, it really works and you start seeing the fruits of your labor too. And that's like more fuel to keep going. Yeah. And I tend to call it activated that it's not enough to be awake anymore. We have to actually. Okay, cool, so you're awake. You watch some documentaries, you watch some podcasts. What are you doing about it now?

Right.

It's time to actively work on the future of humanity. And that's not going to happen.

Just assuming by building my family, family health and wealth, I can make everybody healthy.

Absolutely. And it happens in big and small ways like, and also it's important. One of the things I remind people to when I talk about exit and build, you know, exiting from these systems like we know that aren't going to lead to long term liberty and privacy. Build new ones, support those who are building new ones. It's a process. It doesn't happen overnight. So don't get overwhelmed by, well, you're here, but you'd like to be there.

Somebody was saying, I just have to tell you a couple stories because I have to tell you about the young builders. You know, somebody was saying to me, you know, it's so depressing because I have to deal with People in my life who are just, you know, they're mean and they're corrupt. And they said, don't you feel that way? I said, no. Everywhere I go, my life is full of wonderful people. You know, they're all picky eaters. So everything's always organic everywhere in the world, wherever I go. And, you know, that's basically many years of coming clean. And so you end up. Only you end up in cahoots with the most fabulous people.

You're cultivating a network of people who are on that same vibration.

Exactly. It's just fabulous. So I. I was in Wisconsin. We're having a meet and greet in Viraqua. We're going to be back there again this year. And. And somebody was talking about, you know, there's nobody like me where I live. And I was sitting next to a subscriber who's like one of our coolest subscribers in the whole world. She's been coming clean for decades. She's amazing. Anyway, so I said to this first woman, she said, there's no one around me like that. There's no one that thinks like this. And I said, where do you live? Turned out she moved. She lived a block away.

I've seen that happen, you know.

So we have to find our tribe, and you have to know your tribe's there. So I was going to tell you, we started this program called the Young Builders. Have you heard about it?

I have not. Okay, tell us about it.

So I kept. I kept having our subscribers say, you know, you've got to help my kids and grandkids, because these schools are. These universities are terrible. It's a lot of money. They, you know, what they teach them is just crap. So we started a course called the Young Builders, where we use our building wealth curriculum to teach a group of young people who are 18 to 28 how to use our curriculum to help themselves be more successful, more successful and healthy, More successful in having families, more successful in building businesses. Anyway, so we didn't know it's a prototype. We didn't know. And we're almost through the first class and it's been a huge success. And one of the reasons is these are amazing. We have 29 young people. They are just amazing. Now, they've been very lucky. Their families made sure they were healthy, got good food. A lot of them are homeschooled, but they didn't know each other and they got isolated during the pandemic and they don't know kids like each other. And then, wham, they find each other. And so we're going to do a new class starting in July. We're going to take new applications.

I will definitely put that in the, the show notes and I, I will. You're bringing ideas to my mind. I know some. I mean, even here, for example, at Confluence, they've got the kids tent and the teen tent.

So what I've said to everybody, from now on, that's what we're growing. We're just going to grow the young belt. That's the army.

Yeah.

Right. So we, we, our goal is to just help them succeed wildly.

And if we're going to build a true multi generational awakening movement, or whatever you want to call it, we have to do that because, you know, from your generation to mine to my nieces and the kids coming after us.

Right.

And it's. The cool thing is, you know, there's workshops, there's talks going on. We're looking at some young kids right here. They're soaking it up. They're. They're at events like this and other experiences. They're getting to kind of be around and experience that freedom. This can be cool. This can be fun. And there are other kids my, my age with similar interest. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah. Well, that's so great. I'm glad you're working on the initiative. Well, I really appreciate everything you do, Kathryn. I know everybody does at home and that, you know, you're going to continue to focus on solutions. I know that everybody. When we started the ima, the whole goal was that myself, Ryan and Whitney were looking around.

I thought I made a beeline to you when I saw you at Nexus because you were talking about solutions.

And that to me is the most important.

And you had a book on solutions. I was like, okay, that's my guy.

I'm glad we've stayed connected. And for us, the IMA was like, how can we look around and who can we look around and see who hasn't lost their mind? You know, whether it's for the COVID thing or Gaza? Those were the three main issues when Ryan and I, Whitney, started Gaza with the two party system and Covid.

Right.

And then obviously since then, the thing. But it felt like to us that those three sort of starting points were people who stayed sane and that were definitely people that we could see would be able to resist these narratives.

Yeah. So you have to, you have to hold really firm on these issues because one of my favorite quotes is from Steve Bartlett. He said, if you don't face an uncust, uncomfortable truth. You're buying into an uncomfortable future.

Yeah.

So you gotta, you gotta face the truth up front because that's, you know, that's gonna be your economic pathway. But we have serious imposter problems.

Yeah.

So I've just had to hire a cybersecurity firm to help.

I saw you talking about that. This is probably, it seems like in our Independent Media alliance discussions, this might be a panel topic soon about how content creators, journalists are being impersonated.

We really have to help our audience understand how this game works and not let them get suckered and be able

to discern that because unfortunately, there are ruthless scammers with no morals who will use your name. I have the same thing on telegram. People impersonate me and message people and say, hey, are you getting ready for the collaboration apps, invest in my crypto scam or whatever? And I've unfortunately heard of people being, losing thousands of dollars believing they were

talking, they're stinging people. And that's what we, we do. We want to stop.

Well, thank you, Catherine, so much for your time and for making space for me and for all that you do. Everybody. The websites will be, of course, below, and I look forward to fighting along into the future.

So just remember, in the spirit of the young builders, my job is to lift up the next generation. So you're always going to keep me posted.

I appreciate what I can do to support you, and I will keep passing that energy to the ones after me.

Support him. He's fantastic.

Thank you for everything. Appreciate you very, very much.

Since 2012, the conscious resistance Network has been an independent media organization focused on empowering individuals through education, philosophy, health and community organizing. We work to create a world where corporate and state power do not rule over the lives of free human beings. Our motto is leading by example and helping others and their pursuit of freedom. Visit theconsciousresistance.com to find our articles, documentaries, interviews, podcasts, books, and more. Remember, you are powerful, you are beautiful, and you are free.