United Nations Insider Speaks Out About UN Digital ID Program

Hey, what's up, friends? Derek Brose here with the Conscious Resistance Network. And we are doing a live report right now breaking a really important story that I've been working on for the last couple months. And finally, we released the first version of this investigation into digital IDs, particularly as it pertains to the United Nations. Now, I know a lot of my audience are people who are very familiar with the concerns around digital IDs and the dangers that could be posed by them and the programs rolling out across the European Union and the uk, here in Mexico, where I'm at, and, and elsewhere. And so this might not necessarily be new information to all of you there, but the reason I believe this story is important is because we have a former employee of the United nations, and I don't mean former like 10 years ago. I mean in the sense of just last month, a former UN employee who is coming forward with his concerns, speaking out loudly about what he saw within the UN, the culture within the UN relating to digital IDs, the appearance of people not wanting questions to be asked about privacy, about data security and things like that, and someone who has some insight to share with us. So I think this is an important story because if you have, say, friends or family who dismiss you or think your concerns around digital ID and biometrics maybe are just exaggerated or hyperbolic, well, here's somebody from the inside of the United nations, one of the major organizations around the world that is promoting digital ID programs. Here's somebody from within that system talking about it and giving us the inside information. So today we're going to be talking with Alexander Alex Ray, who is the source for my news story that you can see over@theLastAmerican. Vagabond.com we just released yesterday, exclusive former United nations employee warns of the dangers of the UN's digital ID program. We're going to be breaking all of that down today, guys, with Alex Ray joining me today for the first time. How are you doing, brother?

Very good, thanks, Derek. Thanks for your time on this and thanks for bringing attention to it.

Yeah, thank you for joining me. I mean, I want to just start off by saying, you know, this is the first time we're talking where we're actually seeing each other's face. As I said, we've been communicating for months and working on this, but I just want to say thank you for your courage to come out and share what you have experienced. You know, I think it's valuable and also for trusting me to, to help shepherd this story. Out and bring it out. And hopefully more independent media, journalists and people in the audience will be sharing this story and looking to talk to you as well.

Yeah, I think. Well, this, this issue is getting to the point now where we have to speak about it. There's no hiding from it anymore.

Absolutely. Okay, well, let's go ahead. Let's just start right from the beginning. Go ahead and tell everybody a bit about your background, your involvement with the United nations, how long you're working in the UN and which departments, and then we'll get into what you actually covered in this story.

Yes, I've been involved with the United nations since 2019, mostly in different communications and research roles as a writer, a photographer, researcher, on a whole range of issues from political economy to water and gender and all sorts of different things in countries as diverse as Lebanon and East Timor, and then in certain headquarters offices, most recently in Copenhagen in Denmark.

Okay, and you tell us more about the specifics of what you were doing as a communications offer. I know that's Officer, I know that's one of the titles that you held, but what exactly does that entail and how does you know? What would a daily activities for you look like in that position?

Largely, communications offices are, let's say, finding the best ways to present the work of the UN to the public, which in many cases that's very good work. And sometimes that involves putting the most positive spin. It's a little bit like a public relations role essentially. So that involves talking to specialists, attending different meetings, analyzing reports, editing them, creating public communications around those things. So we really spread across a lot of different roles. In certain roles that involves a lot more in depth research into different topics. And for me, in the last three years I've been involved in working on climate change policy, things related to air pollution, as well as national government policies about their climate change commitments.

And tell me more about the different types of departments. What I want to establish here is just that you weren't an employee for one month at the UN and now you're trying to claim to have some sort of insight. You spent time there over years and in different departments. Tell us more about that, some of the different areas of the UN that you're involved in. I know you touched on a couple already, but please share some more.

Yeah, so I worked in the field office in East Timor from 2019 to 2021. So that was a lot more hands on and human facing work going out into the field and speaking to people on the ground who are invol beneficiaries of UN programs. And then I moved to different consulting roles, doing research on things like gender based violence reporting, communication strategies for government agencies that had hired the UN to do things for them, sometimes researching issues like child labor in the Arab world, a vast range of in depth research as well as public communications and social media work. And then in the last, since 2023, I began working with the United Nations Environment Program as a digital communications officer. So that was more surface level stuff like website design, researching projects that they're doing in different countries and writing public communications about them. Most recently that was working on in the Copenhagen Climate center in, in Denmark. And there I was mostly learning about issues like the transparency work around climate change, how governments are reporting on their climate change commitments, how they're proving what they're doing about climate change, as well as some of the technology work and how countries are adapting to climate change using different technologies.

Okay, great. So that gives us a good amount of background understanding on what you've been doing the last few years and working in the UN in these different areas. Now the story that you shared with me and what I published at the lastamericanvagabon.com focuses on your concerns in relation to the United nations digital ID program. And just to be clear to everyone in the audience, we're not talking about UN's plans for, you know, the public, other countries, but for an internal employee digital ID program. And this program, at least in its current iteration, started to roll out, or at least the beginning of this discussion was in summer of 2020, of course, around COVID 19. And I know that there was, there was talk of this beforehand, but that's where the current iteration, it really got going. When did you first hear about or learn about this digital ID program for you and employees?

Yeah, so the first I heard about it was actually just as late as September 2025, so four, little more than four months ago. And it was quite a surprise to me that it's, that was the first I'd heard about it. It was the first, nearly all of my colleagues had heard about it. And it had been, you know, in the works for so many years. And I had never heard about any staff consultations about this, anybody talking about the necessity of it or why, you know, why it was needed and what benefit it would serve.

Okay, so let's get into that because in, in my article here, which is again based on your testimony, we go through the timeline here. Like you said, you hadn't heard about this until September, and that was in the Innovation Day from Spark to System UN Digital ID Journey Webinar. Is that where you first heard it?

Yeah. So we received an email from the Secretariat Broadcast System, which receive quite a lot of emails, these sort of things, or different webinars going on. And as a writer and a communications person, I just happened to notice that this email was particularly full of very fluffy language about the digital id. And I had known about digital ID efforts in general on, you know, the way that countries are rolling them out. So I was very curious to see what was really going on with this. And I attended that. That webinar.

That webinar is where you said you started to hear these. The fluffy language. You start to get the first realization that this is a UN plan, that they have that for all employees. And that was. That was like the first spark that you had. And this. You didn't just kind of sit by though, and do nothing about it. You decided to start asking questions and you did send out an email. Tell me about what made you want to send this email and what were the questions you asked?

Yeah, I mean, I mentioned the fluffy language in particular, because as a communications officer, I think this is quite relevant and important for people to know. Fluffy language in public relations and the government and in the UN is a way of hiding what's actually happening. It's not speaking directly to people, it's not being honest, it's very grandiose. So it wasn't just me asking the questions in this webinar, by the way. There was 600 people odd who attended. And in the chat, lots of people asked questions about privacy, liability and security issues, and none of them were answered adequately. So that was why I followed up by email with the team involved. I actually collated those questions from all of the questions that had been put in the chat, in the. In the meeting. So they weren't all just my questions. And they ranged across security issues, consent, the governing framework for how or why a private employer had a mandate to request its staff to provide biometric data. And this sort of thing, which hadn't been done before, as well as, you know, all combined with geolocation data, medical records, employment records, payment, payment data as well. Because this app is intended to function as a digital wallet for salaries eventually. So I wanted to understand, you know, if there had been staff consultations, what the results of those consultations were, what will happen to people, staff, who don't consent to using this digital id, you know, these quite fundamental questions.

And you did actually get a response. Right. And. And let's talk about that now. You did get a response. Tell me about before we get into the content of what was said back to you, tell me about the person who responded to you and what his role is in the digital ID program.

As far as I know, Massimiliano Morelli, who is the public face of the program, was responsible for putting together the team and the pitch behind the program in 2020. So it was a pitch that was done in an innovation competition. It won the competition and the program was taken up by the high level Committee on Management and sponsored to be developed under that under those auspices. I don't know a lot about Massimiliano's qualifications on this topic. It doesn't have a large public profile. As far as I understand, he was involved in procurement and logistics roles with the World Food Program prior, so yes.

So he's the one that responds. Right. So he's the head of the digital ID program. And as you noted, I didn't include this in my article. For those who are watching, we are showing the emails on screen, but I didn't include this in my article. It wasn't a major point, but I did find it interesting that he has very like, as far as I could see, other than maybe at LinkedIn, no social media presence at all. And that might be by design because the position he's in maybe just doesn't want to, you know, get himself caught up on social media. But even just searching, for example, Twitter for his name, I only found one post in the entire history of Twitter that was that mentions him and it was after his successful pitch and his idea to create the digital ID won the challenge. They there was a mention of him, not a picture of him, but just a mention of him. And he is this for anybody who's curious, he's the gentleman who's the thumbnail of the actual article that we're looking here on the screen. He's on the left side. Just wanted to make it clear who we're dealing with and who we're talking about as we get into the email. So now tell us a little bit about what he actually said back to you in response to your questions about digital id.

Yeah, it was a typically corporate style response directing me to read the frequently asked questions on the website where the digital ID is downloadable, the app is downloadable, and claiming that there had been staff consultations with the Office of Legal affairs and staff associations that, you know, support the development of the digital id. So I looked at the frequently asked questions and most of them are very perfunctory they don't answer quite serious concerns in any detail. And there are major things that are not answered in there at all. And I also asked for copies or details of those staff consultations. What were the results, where are the meeting minutes, who was involved, Quite basic questions you would think, you know, to provide to staff about what's been happening. And then I also looked at the terms of use, which I think we should talk about maybe later. There's a. The terms of use that are written on the website and that are applied when you download the app, which pretty much exempt the UN from any liability whatsoever.

Yeah, let's just. Yeah, let's get into that. Let's get right into that, because I think that is an important point. So you're. You're asking them questions, you're getting a response that basically says, check out the frequently asked questions, and that's really of no help. And what we're talking about is the frequently asked questions within the official UN digital ID portal. So I'll just show this on the screen real quick. This is just. This is where you log in to get your digital ID account for the un. Obviously, I don't have access to this, but I believe as of last month, when you were still an employee, you. You did still have. This is where you would go log in and see that.

Yeah, I was able to log in yesterday, so I still have access to it.

Okay, you still have access. So as a UN employee, you have access to this. You go in there and there's a list of FAQs, and you did send me those frequently asked questions, so I could verify this myself. And as you were saying, none of them directly address your concerns, but your other big issue is with the terms of use. So talk to us about that and we'll put that on screen too.

Yeah, so there's. There was two issues that came up from the frequently asked questions, actually. There's the terms of use, and there's a mention of a third party involved in developing the app. So I assume that is a private company and I asked for transparency about who that is, and that was also not answered. But in regards to the terms of use, they explicitly say that the UN provides no guarantees as to the operations of the app, the safety of the data in the app, nor liability for any damages or mistakes that happen with it. So just to be clear, we're talking about something that will be hosted on individual staff devices. This is not something that will be hosted on a company provided phone or computer or anything like that.

Because it's an app that you download, right? Like the digital ID access. So it's an app that's been built and then you have to put that on your device. But they're saying they're basically of no responsibility if any damages, loss of goodwill, theft of your information, none of that. Will they be held accountable?

Yeah. And I think it's quite important for people to remember and to know that in general, there is no accountability for United nations organizations legally. They're not liable to any national laws around prosecution, even to provide, you know, transparency about documentation that's, you know, legally guaranteed protections that they have as international organizations. So just to, like, you know, be so blunt about this, on top of that is, you know, it's very irresponsible for them to be asking staff to take on this liability because we're talking about tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of personal devices that all around the world that will be carrying this data on them in a way that the data. This data is never centralized in such a way. And I don't mean centralized. And, you know, they claim that because it's blockchain technology, there won't be any central storage point, but it's centralized on staff's phone. So I, if I was using it, I would have to have all of my medical records, all of my employment history, education records, banking records, all this sort of stuff in there. And if my device was stolen or hacked into, that would be entirely my problem, apparently.

So you're saying that when you log in and you download this, this app and you get your digital id, well, maybe you could walk us through that. Did you actually go through this process or do you know what they expect? Is it like, take the selfie and then you're supposed to put in all this other, like you said, healthcare information, banking. Like, is it literally just intended to be one app that you use for everything? Because I know that one of the big reasons they were, they're already testing it out is for the pensions and for, you know, paying out people. So clearly it's connected in some way to a bank account or to some other account. Could you talk to us about that? About whatever, you know, about the mechanics.

Yeah, so I wouldn't. I didn't download it. I refused to use it. I'm not going to sign up to that. But from what I understand, it is already being rolled out in a. It's trial cases, the United Nations Joint Staff Pension Fund, where they claim that they have nearly 50% of people signed up already. And it Will that, that pension fund use case includes proof of life functionality. So I assume that that means people have to scan their face and show that they're still alive to keep receiving their pension. Which is, you know, just a demonstration of how this technology will be used when it's rolled out across the un, because they are claiming that it will be the one, you know, an all in one solution for UN staff access to anything. So we're talking about access to buildings, access to software and access to payments. So it isn't, it is really intended to be the be all and end all of data collection and management.

Yeah. And I want to, I want you to take us more through your efforts to try to get accountability and to get your questions answered. But before we do that, tell me, you know, what you just said there. Like it's intended to be this one size fits all thing for all of your employment. This is within the un. But do you believe what we're seeing, what you witnessed, and the way that UN is handling the rollout of their own internal digital ID is a, a preview of what UN funded and promoted programs for digital ID might be like around the country, where it becomes condensed in that way that you're describing?

Yeah. So what I was quite, you know, scared by was this parallels between the attitudes towards this staff digital ID and evidence that we've seen about UN digital ID rollouts in different countries around the world, particularly amongst refugee populations. So there have been a number of cases already. So just this, this attitude seems to be one of assumptive optimism about the safety and efficacy and ethics of this technology and general disregard for proper informed consent. So you can see that in the way that staff are not really being informed about what's happening with this, nor given the opportunity to consent to it. But also so in countries like Jordan, Bangladesh, there's five other countries that I have seen evidence of as well, but those two in particular. There is demonstrated evidence of people, refugee populations, pretty much being told that if they don't sign up to this, they can't get access to food and financial support and basic support. And I don't think anybody would really consider that to be an ethical way to help people who are the most desperate in the world. And in a number of digital ID cases around the world, the data is very quickly hacked and stolen or provided to government agencies that do not have the best interests of those populations in mind. And what I saw in the UN staff digital ID is also this attitude that somehow blockchain technology is foolproof and you know, Totally safe. I think anybody who's followed, you know, the developments of cryptocurrency knows that that's ridiculous. Cryptocurrency exchanges and wallets get hacked all the time. And it's actually puts a big target on you, on your devices, if you are using those. Yet people have to take very special security measures to, to keep their finances safe. So now if you, if you were looking to find people who are getting paid quite a lot of money as UN staff and have, you know, blockchain technology on their phones, who, who may not also know much about digital security, you're now putting a big target on the backs of UN staff who are carrying around their, what, their digital wallets on their private devices.

And, well, you point out something really big there. I just. Sorry to interrupt you there, but when you talk about the, what you said a moment ago, I mean, all of this, I think is, is insightful and disturbing to people who are concerned about digital IDs in the public sphere. Because of what you described there about tying access to, you know, assistance or aid or social welfare, things like that, to the, the digital ID and getting one of them. And being a part of that system is exactly why many people, as you know, are concerned about the rise of digital ID programs around the world. Because they are worried that if, that if they, you know, accept this app or they join this program or they do biometrics or whatever it may be, that once that rolls out, there will be no way to operate without being in that system. And what you point at and some of the things that we're already seeing with the UN's own programs, it indicates that there are at least going to be some people who have that in mind of this is, you know, it's sort of the whole, the whole idea of the carrot versus the stick. Some people might say, well, it's just a subtle form of coercion. We want people to be a part of the system. So we're going to tie their, their benefits and their welfare, et cetera, to participation in these systems and therefore they will comply. And I think that's a very worrisome thing. Do you have any other thoughts on that aspect of it? And did you see anybody else who's, who had any other alarm bells going off? Like, did anybody else besides you seem to be concerned about these things?

Yeah. So on the first part, there are two components linked to this. One of the major components is that the companies that are involved, involved in this, that we know of, include people, companies like MasterCard and Palantir. Now, I know it is very well known that Palantir is being incorporated into the data management systems of the World Food Program, who is one of the major promoting agencies of the digital ID, along with the UNHCR. And, you know, by, by giving companies like MasterCard the infrastructure rights to these sort of systems, they're essentially handing them massive contracts. And for the only. The only reason that the UN is providing so far for this as why it's necessary seems to be for cost cutting measures. Now, I've seen in, I think it was the case of Jordan, the UN claimed that it would save them two and a half million dollars in bank fees by doing this. And in the Joint Staff Pension Fund, they're quite explicit about saying that we're doing this to cut down on administrative costs. Now, at what point is the risk worth the saving? Some things need to cost money because they need to be done properly and securely. You can't just keep cutting costs and taking on extra risks for the sake of it.

And.

So when I came across this, I did start speaking to staff colleagues about this and I didn't meet anybody who was enthusiastic about it or thought it was a good idea. And I did a. An informal survey amongst my colleagues to try and get some evidence about this, because when I asked for data about staff consultations, nothing was provided. And even though I was only able to distribute it amongst a small number of people, the results were overwhelmingly obvious that over 80% of people said they wouldn't sign up to such a thing.

Let's talk about that, because. So while you email, you send your first emails, you go back a couple times, eventually you elevate your concerns to filing a complaint and tell me about the department you filed a complaint with the Office of Internal Oversight Services.

Yes. So this is one of the main internal review agencies of the un. There is also some, some services, such as the Ombudsman and the Ethics Office. When I sought advice on who to approach about these, the oios seemed to be the most relevant and because of the lack of consent, a lack of consultation, I thought this had been progressing in quite a dangerous manner. And I asked the iOS to have a look at it, at least to consider my complaint. And their response was that it was not worth looking into from their side and that they would provide, they would pass it on to the Office of Information and Communication Technology for investigation, which is not an investigative body, nor is it impartial or independent. And given its role, I imagine it is involved in the development of the id.

And so you reach out to them, you're trying to get some response. But then this is when, while you're waiting for your response, you decide to do your own informal survey, as you were just talking about a moment ago, and just kind of see how other UN employees, your colleagues, are feeling about this. And so tell us about that. I'm going to show the pictures of the survey on screen. As you said, you've only got to circulate it a short time. I think the most responses you got were 19, but overwhelming. The people who do, who did respond were definitely not for this program. And tell us about that and how you circulated it and what happened once you started to circulate it.

Yeah, so I circulated it via a joint email within my small office, my small department of the UN City in Copenhagen, which has thousands of employees and many agencies housed there. But I was quickly told by senior staff in my office that I was not allowed to distribute this any further based on claimed data privacy issues, even though this is an anonymized survey, so it doesn't collect anybody's name or email address. And my intention had been to share it with other agencies so that they could share it with their staff to get their responses on it. And in the process of speaking to people within the office, certain people within staff associations, I discovered that there are some major UN agencies who knew about this several years ago and refused to sign on and who thought that the program had been scrapped. Now, when these staff association representatives found out that the program had actually been revived and was going ahead, they were quite alarmed to hear about it. So this just gives you an indication of how transparent this really is being, the transparency around this and how it's being managed.

And I just want to mention on that point, we are going to have a second article in this series where I'm going to get some more details from you that we will be sharing as we're going to look at what happened here to our guest today, Alex Ray, former employee with the United nations, and his concerns of the digital ID program being ignored. He decides to leave. But he's been giving us some insight into how the UN's handling their own program. And we're going to look at how that applies to the bigger programs around the world. And, and yeah, so, so walk us through the survey. Your first question here I've got on screen.

Yeah, so I asked if staff thought it was necessary and told them the details of the, the structure of the, the survey. This is all details of what would be included in the app, from what I was told in my found out in my research and what was told to us in the the Briefing webinar back in in September.

Do you mind reading the question just for those listening and not watching?

Sure. It says, do you feel the UN needs a staff digital id? The ID will be stored on your personal phone and implement implemented by a blockchain technology, the ID will collect and centralize personal data, biometric data, facial recognition and fingerprints, medical records, financial data for payment via digital wallet, geolocation data, education records, human resources data, travel approvals and history data, security data and pension data kept over time from onboarding into the UN to parting or retirement. And the results were one person said yes, 16 people said no, and two.

Said maybe so overwhelmingly not in favor of this. Yeah, and let's go to the next one here. I have the next page of your survey here because you asked four questions in total. So walk us through this second one because this deals with the terms of use that you brought up earlier. And as we said a couple minutes ago, the UN itself is absolving themselves of any kind of responsibility if something happens to the individual's data who is downloading the digital ID program and using it. And so you're just trying to bring this to the attention of your colleagues. So tell us about this and. And the response to this as well.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if anybody read the terms of use on any app, let alone a digital id, if they would consent to this. So I asked, would you consent to the following terms of use? Please read quote While UN icc, which is the UN International Computing center, endeavours to ensure that the information on this website is correct, UNIC does not warrant its completeness or accuracy, nor does it commit to ensuring that the website remains available or that the material on the website is kept up to date, UNICC maintains and provides this website on an as is and as available basis without any promises or representations, expressed or implied. In particular, we do not warrant or make any representation regarding the validity, accuracy, reliability or availability of the website or its content to the fullest extent possible. We hereby exclude all express or implied promises, including that the website is fit for purpose of satisfactory quality, non infringing, free of defects, able to or will operate without interruption, that the use of the website by you is in compliance with laws, or that any information that you transmit in connection with this website will be successfully, accurately or securely transmitted. It gets better.

This next part is the part I think that really stands out. I mean, all of It. But this. This part particularly.

Yeah. In no event shall the UN ICC or any developer or contributor of the Website collectively, the non liable parties will be, be liable to you with respect to the use of the Website and. Or be liable to you for any direct, indirect, special or consequential damages, including without limitation, damages for loss of goodwill, lost profits or loss, theft or corruption of your information, the inability to use the Website, device failure or malfunction. The non liable parties shall not be liable even if they or any of them has been advised of the possibility of such damages, including, without limitation, damages caused by error, emission, interruption, defect, failure or performance, unauthorized use, delay in operation or transmission line failure, computer virus, worm, Trojan horse or other harm.

And I don't have the results of that one up here, but do you remember what the numbers were on that one before we go to the other questions?

I don't have.

I know it was definitely people, most of the people did not consent to that, to those terms. I think it was like, yeah, 90 perhaps. It was very, very high, for sure.

Yeah, it was close to 100. Okay.

And so that's, I mean, that's just. Just to pause there before we get to your next question. Your next questions here again, guys, we're talking with Alex Ray, former employee of the United Nations. He's going through a survey, an informal survey that he conducted with his colleagues to get their opinions and their thoughts on how they felt about the digital ID program. And as he's showing here, the majority had never even heard of it. They definitely didn't understand the terms of use, which we just went over. And we're going to go over some other questions which make it clear that the majority of the staff, of the 19 that you were able to get this to before you ran into a little bit of roadblock, were definitely not in favor of this program. So walk us through these last couple questions here.

Yeah. So, pretty simple. Were you aware that the UN Secretariat and five other agencies have been working on a digital ID with the above conditions since 2020? 100% said no. Then my fourth question was, would you consent to using this digital ID as a mandatory condition of employment within the UN system, including consultants and contractors? 2 said yes, 13 said no, 4 said maybe. So 68% said no, 68, 100% not.

Even aware of it. Higher numbers with the other ones. And that's. It's interesting. Again, this is a small sample size, admittedly. So for those who are looking at this, this isn't the entire UN staff that got pulled or Anything like this. But you were planning to, you know, kind of put this out there and see what type of sample you could get and where's everybody's opinion? And then what happened? Why did you only get 19 people?

Well, I, I would say that some people didn't see the email when, you know, we get bombarded with emails all the time. But the reason why I couldn't share it beyond my small department was that my, a senior staff member in the department told me that I was expressly prohibited from sharing the survey any further because in, in my email sharing the survey, I had told staff that this will be shared beyond our department just to give people some assurance that this was going to be transparent and done with as much inclusivity as possible to get as broad a possible sample size.

And, and so they, they said you, you weren't able to do that. You weren't able to circulate a survey.

Within your department, within, within the office, which includes several, you know, several large UN Agencies. And I hadn't actually intended to do that personally myself. My intention was to share it with representatives from those agencies and get them to share it amongst their staff. But I think it's just quite indicative that, you know, we, we get things sent to us on collective email lists all the time. So I highly doubt that the reasoning about not being able to use collective email lists for privacy concerns as valid or legitimate.

I mean, they said you were violating the U. N. Code of conduct, correct?

That's correct. Yeah.

But you're saying you don't think that, you know, that people circulate emails. It hasn't been an issue before. I mean, is it your feeling that this is specifically related to the questions you're asking about digital id?

Well, the claim that I was violating the code of conduct was related to there being some personal gain for me from having access to people's email addresses as a result through this, and I don't gain anything from this. In fact, I shouldn't have to be doing this work should be. The surveying should be done by the people developing the app. Yeah, so that kind of rings quite hollow, but it's also quite indicative of the real culture within the UN Is that it's not as morally grand as it makes itself out to be. There's extreme problems with transparency within the UN and something as simple as this, which is in one of the highest concerns for staff, is not allowed to. Go ahead.

Yeah, I want to get more of your opinions on the UN In a broader sense, but let's go ahead let's continue. Let's just sort of wrap up the timeline of, of, of your efforts to get more information. So as we've covered so far, you sent the initial email, then you're, you know, you elevate it to a complaint and you start getting some responses from that. There was a couple of back and forths that you had. Ultimately though, they're, essentially their answer is that they're not going to look into it, they're not going to investigate it. I think the exact language is not a misconduct matter. Warran quarantine, OIOS investigation and they told you to go to a different department, tell us why you didn't go to this different department. And, and you know, what you felt fell short and the response.

So they actually didn't tell me to go to the department. They said they would pass my complaint onto them. And when I asked how I could follow it, because the OICT is not an investigative body, and I asked how I could follow the results of my complaint, I got no answer. And when I pointed this out, the OICT is not an investigative body, nor is it impartial, and asking why they thought it relevant that they should be doing the investigation instead, I also got no answer. So, yeah, and these are, this is correspondence with an unnamed person within oios. They don't even identify themselves.

So that you're not likely to get much accountability there or to have anybody to really follow up with just a nameless face there. And ultimately that's sort of where things end. And you, you left the UN or your term was up in December, did you decide to leave the UN and not sort of continue your work there because of this issue? Was that in way, any way related or was it just a separate issue where you, you know, you were kind of just ready to, to move on in your life? Tell us about why you.

Yeah, I mean, this was one issue that concerned me significantly. I in general have become quite tired of the hypocrisy of the UN and its failure to act adequately on a range of issues. People, you know, people around the world are witnessing the UN's failure on many things, from climate change to genocide. The digital ID stuff I had known about tangentially previously, but once I started investigating this and reading about some of the cases of the countries that digital IDs are being rolled out in as well, I didn't think that the UN really matched the values that I thought I was working for within it. So, you know, there's plenty of other areas that I can work in that are much more aligned with my values. And unfortunately, the UN pays people very well and the majority of staff in the UN are in there with a job for life. So there's not a lot of incentive for people to speak up and be honest about things that they see happening in there. But I, that wasn't for me, so that's why I resigned.

Well, thank you for having the principles that you do have and despite, you know, the, the, the nice paycheck choosing to follow, you know, what felt right to you instead of just standing still there. Now, I included something in the article that I wanted to get your, your thoughts on because obviously you've covered here. You know, you asked the questions to the initial email, then follow up, file a complaint, and ultimately pretty much ignored and dismissed. But I included in the article that Max Morelli, who's the gentleman that you emailed initially, that responded to your email initially, he just was a part of a UN Q A session about a week ago, actually, and it was about digital IDs, and I watched it in the process of researching for this article. And this is what he said, and I just want your thoughts on it. He says, quote, when it comes to data privacy, I just wanted to reiterate the fact that our systems do not store any data unless you're creating a backup. So the privacy of your data stays within your wallet. For me, UNICC is hosting my information, my personal records. I can get it into my wallet if I want to, and then I get to choose who I share that information with. Nobody else sees my information. It's completely fully locked to my wallet. So he's painting a picture of data security and protection and things of that sort. What, what are your thoughts on that? Do you think that's an accurate statement he's making there, or do you think it really misrepresents what you found?

Yeah, I'm not sure what Mr. Morelli's qualifications are with information technology, but I remember in the initial, the initial webinar that I attended. I'll never forget this word for word, because it's one of the most striking answers I've heard. Someone asked what will happen if the digital ID gets hacked. And Mr. Morelli said that the initiative is shared between six agencies, so if there is a breach, everybody will be responsible. Now, I don't think that's a technical or a legal answer, but I think you can see there's a bit of, like, confusion in, in the answer that you've just quoted about where the information is stored. Like what is hosting the, the information is posted on your phone and it sounds from that answer like there is the option for it to be hosted somewhere else, to be backed up somewhere else, seemingly within the unicc. So I mean, regardless of whether there is a backup somewhere on the cloud, hosted by somewhere else, that someone else, the fact that it's all of that data is centralized on your phone just increases the target risk for you to be hacked into as a private individual. And as we've seen, the terms and conditions, the terms of use provide no protection for you if that happens.

Yeah, well, I definitely, you know, what you pointed to and what he quoted there. The reason I mentioned is because that's going to be part of our next story which I will be releasing next week, which will include some more insight from you. So everybody please stay tuned for that because we're going to look at the un. This was just about the internal UN program and, and the problems that Alex is pointing out here. But we're going to talk about the UN's role in promoting digital ID programs around the world. Getting further into what he talked about, about certain stipulations and requirements once you're using this digital id. And I'm also going to look at who is behind the, the, the wallet that's within the digital ID itself, which I found Cardano and a couple other companies. And so we're going to look at their, their services and sort of how they factor into this picture itself. But before I let you go for today, first off, again, thank you for, for being willing to speak out, for sharing your story with me, Alex and I wanted to ask you about your sort of your, your own personal journey within the un. You've kind of hinted at it a little bit here and there that obviously you came into this organization with good intentions. And it was my experience when I went to the UN last year for the summit of the future and I met quite a bit different people from all different backgrounds that there was a lot of well intentioned good people there working in different elements of the un, who from my perspective might not really understand some of the bigger pictures and the dangers associated with the un. And it seems like from what you've told me, you've kind of been on your own personal journey of starting to question the role of the un, you know, what you were doing, whether it's the best place for you to be there. But also you mentioned, you know, even looking back at the origins of some of the UN's programs like from Maurice Strong, which are Our friend here at the show, James Corbett, has reported quite a bit about. Yeah, just tell us about that before we wrap up today, some of your personal journey and also if you have any ideas of what you plan to do now in the future, because you clearly care about the world and you clearly have a voice and a mind that you want to use for, you know, the good of humanity.

Yeah, thanks, Derek. I mean, I joined the UN in a context that I think really represents a lot more of the real values that, that are intertwined within the organization and that most people join for. You're right, all, nearly all UN staff are extremely well meaning people. I think the issue is that the structure of the organization is obfuscated by its own propaganda and its own language. Because in reality we're talking about an organization that is there to represent the interests of national governments. It's not there to serve people necessarily. And my work in the beginning in East Timor was very much hands on, on the ground, speaking to people, benefiting from some of the good work that the UN does. However, I started to see over time that really rather than being any, having any democratic nature to it, nearly everything within the UN is top down decision making, often coming from people right up at the top of the organizations, the different agencies and the secretariat itself who as anybody who knows about power structures in government, people don't get to those positions because they're willing to challenge the status quo and speak out. They get into those positions because they're willing to put on a good face onto things that are happening behind the scenes. And over the years I've started to see that the UN is more and more influenced by corporate interests as well as this fundamental flaw that it has in that claims to be solving the problems of the world while being politically neutral. And nearly all of the world's problems are caused by political issues. And you're never going to actually solve those problems unless you're willing to speak openly about them. So that results in approaches to things which are very much band aid solutions a lot of the time rather than actually having honest conversations about what's causing the issues at hand. And I think what I've seen before and during working with them is that the inability to actually solve those problems is leading to a crisis of legitimacy and relevancy. And so you see a lot of like fancy words and terminology put onto programs and different initiatives which are very basic actually. So it's a bit, it's a bit of a scramble for maintaining relevance. And as a communications person and a writer I really pick up on that because a lot of it is rubbish language that you could strip down to very simple things, actually. And that just indicates the fact that the UN is actually not succeeding in some of the main areas that it needs to. And since the 90s, we've seen increasing corporate capture within the UN, which is essentially represented by an obsession with stakeholder engagement. Private sector, stakeholder engagement. But that doesn't come with a recognition amongst most staff within the UN that the private sector's main interests just, you know, objectively is profit. Private sector, it doesn't exist to do other things. So when you have. And we're not talking about, most of the time, we're not talking about the private sector in, you know, small mom and dad businesses, they don't get represented. It's the private sector represented by people in the World Economic Forum and major, major private partnerships with, you know, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Palantir, Microsoft, you know, companies with extremely questionable ethical practices. And this, when you start to dig into it, it's just, you just start to see that it's rife throughout the system and not being questioned enough.

You're right there. And this is, I think it's, it's a, it's an important point you're making because we know that the World Economic Forum, the United Nations, a lot of these organization, they love to talk about stakeholders and they love to pay, at least, you know, pay lip service to representing the indigenous voices and representing, you know, different groups of people. And they might have some sort of superficial ways that they do this in some of the meetings that they hold. But for the most part, what you're describing is exactly what I found. And I think what most of my audience is familiar with, the idea that the UN doesn't actually represent their interest. It's representing, as you said, governments and private interests that are not going really, that's not necessarily going to benefit the average person, although that's what they're selling it as. And, and yeah. Do you have any thoughts on what you're going to do with your future, near term future, like how you might use your voice now?

Yeah. So I mean, just to just illustrate like some of the, the workarounds that the mental loops that people are creating in, within this organization. The UN will always complain about not having enough money now, right? There's a huge funding crisis, so they go pandering to the private sector looking for money to these philanthropic organizations. And these are the same organizations and people that are not paying their corporate taxes to national governments. The solution would be to make them pay their taxes to the governments and keep the government funding in the U.N. i mean, that's a no brainer. But that is not a conversation that's being had very often because no one wants to talk about tax. It's too simple. But I just wanted to put that out there because it's very indicative of the type of like, you know, mental gymnastics that goes on. Me personally, I'm going to be doing my own writing on Substack, creating more videos about structural issues which, you know, underlie the problems of the world. And that's not just political or logistical structural issues. I'm also very interested in our own spirituality, our own psychology, the internal pain that people have that we create problems in our lives through and how that plays out on an individual and collective level. So people can find my writing about that on Substack at All Quiet on the Inner Front. That's, that's my channel. And yeah, I'll be putting out videos to accompany my writing as well. And in general also I'll add that for sure going, going from working in the UN Environment program to working in gardens. People need to get back to the land and work with their hands in the real world.

I love it, man. Exploring the sort of personal, spiritual, psychological and getting back, getting connected to the earth. I'll definitely include a link to your substack. And everybody, I highly encourage you to follow Alex and see where he goes next. This will not be the last time that we have you on my show. I definitely want to have you back when I release the second piece to get more of your insight. And I know that there's other people in the independent media who want to hear your story as well. So I encourage everybody to stay tuned and, and to please share the article. The article is in the show Notes is called Exclusive. Former United nations employee warns of the dangers of the UN Digital ID program. I really appreciate you joining me today. Alex, thank you so much for your time.

Thank you too, Derek. Take care.

Take care. All right, everybody. Thank you guys for tuning in today. Thank you for listening to this interview. I think this has been a really important one. This to me, these are the kind of stories that I really love doing because Alex reached out to me a couple of months ago because he came across my work. Somehow I actually don't think I even asked him how and said, look, I'm going to be, I'm in the UN right now. I have these concerns. I'm emailing people, I'm trying To get information. I'm being, you know, blackballed. I want you to help me tell the story. And so he waited till it was time for him to leave the UN before he was ready to speak, which just happened last month in December. And meanwhile we were having dialogues, we were, you know, communicating. He was showing me what was going on behind the scenes. And now after a couple of months of work, it led to this article which you can find exclusively at the last American vagabond.com it's also on the Last American Vagabond substack and I did add it to my substack. So I guess it's not exclusively there anymore. But this is an exclusive story that we are breaking first and as I said, you will be hearing more. This is just the first of a two part in a series that I'm going to do the second part next week and Alex will be a part of that as well. And I did talk to other friends. I think he's going to be appearing on James Corbett show soon. So look out for Alex to make waves with this information, this story. And again, thank you Alex for, for trusting me on this. And I just want to say for a moment that if you appreciate my work and I see the kind comments, then I really, really want to just implore you guys, if you appreciate that kind of hard hitting investigative journalism where people like Alex are trusting me and coming to me to break their stories, then I want your support. I need your support, my friends. I want to, I want to let you guys know that Tomorrow, Friday the 16th at 12:00pm Central, my buddy Ryan Christian and I of the last American vagabond.com we're going to be doing a three hour live stream, maybe four hours. We'll see how long we can, you know, we can handle being on, on the stream, but it's going to be a stream where we're asking for your support. Guys. We are aiming to raise up to $50,000 if we can do it. I know that sounds like a lot, but that's basically to pay myself and Ryan for the next year. So this will just be split right down the middle. And if you think about that, making $25,000 a year is not that much in our world today, but it'll allow me and Ryan to survive and to continue to do our independent media because unfortunately both of our organizations, mine, the Conscious Resistance and his, the Last American Vagabond are barely hanging on by a thread financially. So we need your support. This [email protected] TLav CR fundraiser. I'll put the link in the show notes right here for everybody. But if you're free Tomorrow, tune in 12pm Central will be live for three or four hours. We're going to have a lot of different independent media guests stepping in and joining us. And if you can contribute, we would love it, we need it and we want to continue to do this. So if you value the work that I do and the kind of stories I'm bringing you, like you just heard from Alex Ray of the United nations, formerly of the United nations, then guys, please support myself and Ryan because the independent media will not survive. We don't have the big backing of the, the, you know, the private businesses that Alex was just talking about that the UN goes to begs for, for money. We don't get support from the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation or from the Rockefeller foundation, and we're not getting those $7,000 Israeli checks that some people in the mainstream alternative media are getting. So we count on you for your support, my friends. So you can always find my addresses if you want to support me in any way@the consciousresistance.com invest. But if you want to support tomorrow for this specific drive, tune in 12pm Central. Wherever you're watching right now, it will be live there. It'll also be live on Ryan's channels. And if you can give the give send go address is posted in the comments. Guys, thank you so much for listening. Enjoy the rest of your day. And as always, remember, you are powerful, you are beautiful, and you are free, my friends. Peace.

Since 2012, the Conscious Resistance Network has been an independent media organization focused on empowering individuals through education, philosophy, health and community organizing. We work to create a world where corporate and state power do not rule over the lives of free human beings. Our motto is leading by example and helping others in their pursuit of freedom. Visit theconsciousresistance.com to find our articles, documentaries, interviews, podcasts, books and more. Remember, you are powerful, you are beautiful, and you are free.